The Straight Scouts of America
My husband is an Eagle Scout – he has achieved the highest honor available to Boy Scouts. He recounts tales of Scout camping trips, local meetings and activities and endless hours of outdoor fun and learning. Scouting was a major part of his childhood, but it isn’t going to be a part of our son’s childhood experience.
We have decided that we cannot support nor donate our time, energy, and money to an organization that has a policy explicitly stating that it will not grant membership to open or avowed homosexuals.
The Boy Scouts of America is a private organization; it has the right to create rules for membership. I don’t challenge that. What I challenge is the notion that a person’s sexuality has any bearing on his or her ability to participate in scouting activities. Is a gay person less capable of starting a campfire than a straight person? Or perhaps the openly gay scout is just genetically incapable of tying knots or completing service projects?
From what I understand, the reason for only including closeted homosexuals is to make sure that the idea of homosexuality is introduced in the proper place: the home and by the parents in the way that they wish to explain it.
I find this logic baffling for several reasons. The first is that I would honestly prefer that talk of any scoutmaster’s sexuality is off-limits to the scouts. I would find it wholly inappropriate for a straight scoutmaster to talk of his heterosexual weekend conquests with my seven-year-old. What kid that age needs to hear a person in a leadership position talking about sex, anyway?
The second is that, as a parent, you don’t always have a say in the kinds of things to which your child is exposed. I suppose that if you keep your kids ensconced away from the world, hidden away like Rapunzel in a tower, they might not encounter something that you disagree with or disapprove of, but how likely is that? They will hear music you don’t like, they will hear language you think is crass, and they will learn things from all around them when you’re not with them. When you become a parent, you are automatically a volunteer in the School of Difficult Discussions. You talk with your child and help them define their morals – believe it or not, this is a more effective lesson when their morals are challenged.
My third point is that this reeks of the old lies that being gay is equivalent to being a pedophile or to having the uncontrollable urge to seduce every person in your gender. And that is just simply wrong. Being gay is not a medical condition nor is it a psychological disorder.
The ruling by the leadership of the Boy Scouts of America seems tremendously unfair to the scouts who began with the organization as young children and who want to come out as teenagers or even when they are scoutmasters – can’t they imagine a teen having to choose between coming out to be who he is and staying closeted to participate in the Scout troop to which he has dedicated so much of his time and talent?
For all of these reasons, we will be taking a pass when it comes to the Boy Scouts. It might be within their right as a private organization to discriminate against gays, but it is within my right as a parent to condemn ignorance, discrimination, and bigotry. My morals suggest to me to teach my son tolerance, acceptance, and appreciation for the world around him – including people of all backgrounds.
Besides, I’m pretty sure my husband can teach him how to start a campfire and tie a bazillion knots. He’d just better hand me the compass, because his sense of direction is lousy.
Jen Rothmeyer
7:41 am on Wednesday, July 18, 2012
"The second is that, as a parent, you don’t always have a say in the kinds of things to which your child is exposed."
And that is the reason we ultimately decided to allow Nate to become a Boy Scout. We looked for alternative organizations and there weren't any active ones close to us. Nate is going to run into bigots, ignorance, and discrimination. We've given him a firm foundation on what we feel is right and how to treat people and we've told him that we don't agree with what the Boy Scouts have decided.
We also checked with the scout leader to make sure that gay-bashing or anything similar would not be discussed. We were assured that it would not.
I do completely agree; an individual's sexuality should not matter in the Boy Scouts unless the person is a pedophile.
Courtenay Baker-Olinger
8:20 am on Wednesday, July 18, 2012
You're right -- there aren't similar organizations here. I have friends whose sons have had fantastic experiences with the troop in our town -- I suspect that many troops are run by scoutmasters who are more tolerant than the organization's leadership.
Jen Rothmeyer
11:29 am on Wednesday, July 18, 2012
I'm hopeful that some day we'll either be able to help create change from within or that they will change their mind. :\
Courtenay Baker-Olinger
11:49 am on Wednesday, July 18, 2012
Me, too!
Jim Zupan
12:03 pm on Wednesday, July 18, 2012
The boy scouts have every right to set the rules of membership. When I was a scout, I don't recall sexuality ever coming up. The scouts are a great organization. it is too bad that folks are trying to push their own beliefs on the scouts. They don't tell you who to let in your house, what right do you have to tell them who to let in to theirs. All i got to say is political correctness stinks.
Courtenay Baker-Olinger
12:11 pm on Wednesday, July 18, 2012
I am not trying to push my beliefs on the Scouts, just stating why my child won't be participating -- and I very clearly said that as a private organization, the Scouts can determine their membership rules. But I don't have to agree with them, nor do I have to allow my child to participate.
I don't think this is a matter of political correctness, though. To me, that term implies a certain pettiness that I don't associate with discrimination (something that, to me, is not a petty issue).
Jeff Klinzman
2:40 pm on Wednesday, July 18, 2012
There's nothing wrong with what you dismiss as "political correctness," Jim, since I infer the term means you don't make derogatory comments about peopkle based on race, gender, creed, or ethnicity, and we can cenSURE anyone who does. And, comparing the Scouts to someone's private home is a faulty analogy. Prejudice against LGBT people, broadly known as homophobia, is a form of orthodox thinking which deserves to be condemned.
Let's compromise. Since the BSA is a private group, how about they or any other group which discriminates against people who are members of a protected category under civil rights law be denied tax exemption? I think that's totally fair: you want to discriminate, you pay taxes.
Jack F
5:47 pm on Friday, July 20, 2012
Jim you are right and Jeff you are "left" wrong. Boy Scouts are a faith based organization. They should be tax exempt and our government should stay out of the discussion. They have every right to "choose" their staff and what their employees or volunteers choose to share with innocent children. They also have the same right not to allow girls as members or scout leaders. If you dont like their "CHOICE" then go away. You can't have it both ways.
Ms. H
12:17 pm on Wednesday, July 18, 2012
I'm just concerned of the message value in itself. I mean yes, it is essentially 'their house' but what would happen if a child started Boy Scouts at the minimum age, 7. They go through 5 years or so within the organization and they end up figuring out they are a homosexual? Are they supposed to closet who they are or do they get kicked out? I think it is the message value is what I don't like. You are not welcome here if...
Courtenay Baker-Olinger
1:09 pm on Wednesday, July 18, 2012
I'm not sure what would happen to them -- I don't know many 7-year-olds who are capable of articulating anything about their sexuality, so I imagine this will be happening to many kids. I suspect that, like many gay people have done regarding other private organizations (like churches), they will have to choose between staying closeted and coming out and breaking with the organization.
Jack F
5:49 pm on Friday, July 20, 2012
Ms H... The answer is YES
Maria Houser Conzemius
4:03 pm on Wednesday, July 18, 2012
The irony of the Scout policy is that at least one pedophile in the Scouts have raped, tortured, and murdered teen boys. John Wayne Gacy ("no tears for the clown") was very active in the Boy Scouts of Waterloo, Iowa, had his own business, and was diagnosed with Anti-Social Personality Disorder at University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics. He killed over 30 teens, and the only reason anyone found out was because the last murdered teen told his parents he was going to see Mr. Gacy about a job. His parents never saw him again. The police found the bodies buried in the walls, basement, and yard of his house. He was executed in Illinois.
You're better off with someone overtly gay than with the pedophiles that the Scouts and the Catholic Church are filled with.
Ask yourself: Where do the pedophiles go? Where the children are. Access to prey is the prime motivation for pedophiles. They know how to groom their victims and their victims' parents, too.
Troy Murphy
4:09 pm on Thursday, July 19, 2012
"You're better off with someone overtly gay than with the pedophiles that the Scouts and the Catholic Church are filled with."
While these organizations may have pedophiles who are in them saying they are filled with them is just an attack on organizations that you obviously don't like. As an Eagle Scout I can attest to the fact the scouts are a wonderful organization and while I may believe that they should allow gays in, I also respect their right not to. So are you telling me that most male teachers are pedophiles? Or for that matter female teachers, based on the number of women accused of seducing male students. That is as ridiculous as the comment above.
As I am not Catholic I can't defend the church except that I believe broad sweeping generaliztions are as apt to be false as they are to be true.
David Leonard
9:49 am on Thursday, July 19, 2012
It appears from most of these comments that we live in a very accepting community. Our children are fortunate to be growing up here.
Courtenay Baker-Olinger
10:00 am on Thursday, July 19, 2012
I can't agree more!
Devon Murphy-Petersen
10:02 am on Thursday, July 19, 2012
Courtenay, thank you for this succinct and well-written post. I 100% agree with you!
Courtenay Baker-Olinger
11:14 am on Friday, July 20, 2012
Thank you so much!
Apricot Cat
1:54 pm on Thursday, July 19, 2012
Ditto!
Courtenay Baker-Olinger
11:14 am on Friday, July 20, 2012
Thank you!
Maria Houser Conzemius
4:15 pm on Thursday, July 19, 2012
Troy Murphy, walk around with your blinders on and you'll be happier. Ignorance is bliss. Enjoy it.
Troy Murphy
4:38 pm on Thursday, July 19, 2012
Ignorance about what? I know there are pedophiles who were scout leaders, there are pedophiles who are clergy and their are pedophiles who are teachers, my point is should I brand public schools as full of Pedophiles. Or lets twist it a little, since most pedophiles are men and since a lot of them like boys should I then infer that homosexual men are pedophiles? That would be as ridiculous as your comment about Scouts and Catholics.
Maria Houser Conzemius
5:06 pm on Thursday, July 19, 2012
Go ahead and believe whatever you want to believe. I know you will anyway despite the facts. There's nothing ridiculous about my comment about the Scouts and the Catholic Church being full of pedophiles. It's the God's honest truth. I didn't let my son join the Boy Scouts for that reason and I would be opposed to a grandson joining the Scouts. Once burnt, twice shy.
Troy Murphy
7:40 pm on Thursday, July 19, 2012
So if you know the scouts are full of pedophiles why do you allow them to get away with it? Why aren't you out there picketing and protesting the scout leaders in your community, surely they are all pedophiles. You need to stop this since you know there are so many of them, I will bring my neighbor over who is a scout leader and you can accuse him of being a pedophile while you are at it you can burn him at the stake or maybe lynching him would be better. Sorry this is a waste of my time, trying to convince a closed minded person that branding a whole group because of the misdeeds of a few is like trying to convince a congressman not to spend my money, a hopeless task.
Jack F
5:55 pm on Friday, July 20, 2012
Maria - since I am Catholic... Then I exposed my sons to pedifiles? That is so bigoted I don't even know where to start....
Maria Houser Conzemius
12:23 pm on Friday, July 20, 2012
Troy, there have been pedophiles in Congress, too. A Congressman sent inappropriate emails to teen pages. Pedophiles are everywhere, but mostly where the children are. Keeping your head in the sand won't help the children within your supervision any more than burying Jerry Sandusky's crimes helped Penn State.
Troy Murphy
12:40 pm on Friday, July 20, 2012
My point, which you fail to understand is that the Scouts are a great organization that you want to paint with a broad brush because for some reason you don't like them. There are evil people evrywhere and we must be on our toes to keep them from harming our children but for you to imply that scouting is full of pedophiles and should be avoided is offensive to all the people who are scouts or who take their time to become scout leaders and teach the next generation.
Maria Houser Conzemius
12:55 pm on Friday, July 20, 2012
And my point is that the Boy Scouts have not done a good enough job of weeding out pedophiles to justify a parent feeling safe having their son join the Scouts. The fact that the Scouts are forbidding gay members and gay Scout leaders is a result of the confusion as to the difference between a pedophile and a gay person.
You people in the Scouts think your closing the barn door after the fox has already gotten to the chickens, but really you're just homophobic and unenlightened.
Troy Murphy
2:30 pm on Friday, July 20, 2012
What exactly should the BSA do? Scout leaders are volunteers, there is a background check run on them before they can become leaders. If there is no history of abuse what exactly is the BSA supposed to do? The responsibility to protect your children is yours, be involved, show up unexpectedly to events, talk to your children. Anyplace children interact with adults has the potential for abuse. We can put safeguards in place but there are no guarantees. As a parent it is your responsibility.
As far as homosexuality being allowed in scouting, I disagree with the scouts and I am sure there are a lot of others who are scouts who do as well. The fact Scouts are forbidding gay members has nothing to do with the confusion between a pedophile and a homosexual, I believe it probably has something to do with the traditional religous belief that homosexuality is morally wrong. I can guarantee that they also believe pedophilia is also morally wrong. I must also state that although I disagree with them I can see where being true to the Scout promise may conflict with homosexuality.
Here is the Scout Oath:
On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.
The Scout Law:
A Scout is: Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent.
Troy Murphy
2:34 pm on Friday, July 20, 2012
BTW, There you go again calling people names, "You people in the Scouts think your closing the barn door after the fox has already gotten to the chickens, but really you're just homophobic and unenlightened."
I guarantee I am not homophobic, unenlightened? Probably! But I work on it daily and try not to let you enlightened people make me feel guilty for my lack thereof.
al
11:52 am on Wednesday, September 26, 2012
Ok,after reading all these comments,i will start by saying that i was in scouts as a child and now have a 8 yr old in scouts. Yes they have a right to keep out who they want.I also believe they have a OATH to up hold.Part of the scouts oath says to "MY DUTY TO GOD". Someone please tell when God said it was ok for us to judge other people? Boy Scouts was founded and is based in part on "GOD".I personal have no problem with a homosexal being a leader as long as he or she can show it does not get in the way of what they are there for,help the kids grow into GOOD PEOPLE. I also have problems with the way the scouts keep parents from being leaders,ok,back round checks are fine,did GOD ever say if you got in trouble at any point in your life you can not have faith,follow or have my values? I THINK NOT,Yet the scouts do just that.Over 20 yrs ago i got in trouble,went to prison,got the help i needed to better my life and the scouts say i am not fit to be a leader,that is bs,i am more fit then the woman who runs it now.I say that the scouts do discrimate. Just so all you know,i openly talk with my son and try to teach him that everyone is different,there are good and bad people in the world and that people can and do change,do i talk to him about peoples sexual make up,come on,he is 8, he could care less,i have and do talk to him about people touching him where he does not want to be touched and what to do and how,i also talk to him about accepting people also part of the OATH.